What sound does a turtle make? At
first, you might be stumped by that question. Do turtles make any sound
at all? In fact, they do. And scientists recently discovered
that a type of freshwater turtle, the pig-nosed turtle, not only
vocalizes, but also engages in complex social interactions with other
turtles…
I’d just like to add, see how they behave when they’re angry/frustrated/exhausted, and if you see something that concerns you, wait until they’re calm, and then talk to them about it.
My husband used to yell when he got frustrated, but after I explained to him that I found it upsetting, he stopped yelling and started consciously working on asking for help before he got to that level of frustration.
When I’m upset over something, or just in a bad mood, I tend to withdraw. My husband explained to me that it makes him feel like I’m mad at him, so now when I need some space, I’ll tell him what I’m upset about, or that I’m in a bad mood for no particular reason, and I need to be alone for a little while.
See your friends and partners at their worst, but don’t assume that their worst is immutable. If someone loves and cares about you, they’ll try to accommodate you to the best of their ability.
i wonder if my pets have like a proper language and when i try to speak back to them im just speaking jargon
like for example my cat always speaks to me when I come home and i meow back to her and she’ll meow again & even though i don’t think twice about it to her it’s probably a situation where it’s like
her, meowing: “im glad you’re home”
me, meowing back: “tax benefits”
her, meowing: “why do u always do this”
me
cats actually have a human-specific language. cats don’t often meow at each other and seem to use subvocal communications that humans can’t hear to chat cat-to-cat. however, cats seem to use what humans would call “shout-until-you’re-understood” to speak to humans. so basically, it’s more like:
“I’M GLAD YOU’RE HOME!”
“tax benefits”
“NO, I’M GLAD YOU ARE HOME”
“waffle iron”
“IT’S OKAY. I LOVE YOU TOO, MY DUMB HUMAN”
The domestic house cat’s wild ancestors have a much harsher voice, too. The going theory is that early cats mimicked human infants which tripped humans’ nurturing instincts, and then selective breeding did the rest.
We make a big deal over how dogs have developed the ability to understand human expressions and tones (and let’s be fair, that is in fact awesome), but cats are possibly the only species that has changed their vocal language to try to communicate with us.
what I love about this post (apart from cats because cats are ADORABLE) is the assumption that cats have words for tax benefits.
I don’t know all of these things with certainty, but I believe they are all true, and it would be nice if people stopped treating them as contradictory.
Talking over people, condescending to them, not responding to signs of discomfort, etc., can and do cause harm.
Autism and autistic traits tend to make people more likely to engage in these behaviors.
These behaviors can also be made more likely by one person assuming that that the other person can’t have anything worthwhile to say, or by one person treating the other person’s feelings as unimportant. These attitudes, in turn, can be made more likely by certain social privileges including class privilege and male privilege.
People are often not consciously aware of the ways in which classism and sexism cause them to downplay certain perspectives, so these can be a factor even in the absence of malicious intent.
Any individual instance of these behaviors might be influenced by multiple factors including the ones given above and others.
Behaviors associated with autism are typically stigmatized as weird and embarrassing even when they don’t harm other people.
Some of the stigma associated with the behaviors under discussion is rooted in ableism and the punishment of certain kinds of weirdness.
Some of the stigma against condescension, ignoring discomfort, and talking over people derives from the actual harm these behaviors cause to other people.
Musings/potential elaboration: Within the subset of “neurodivergent people who talk over others,” I would add that lots of interpersonal and gender differences can probably be attributed to a kind of predictive shame. I’m hesitant to draw any sweeping conclusions, but I’ll say that most people I know who fit into said subset fall into one of two categories: the “I’m just going to embarrass myself so I won’t say anything on the off-chance I’ll be rude” type and the “normies have it out for me, they just don’t get my interests” type. And while I’ll concede that there’s almost definitely a gender-socialization thing going on there, I think it’s interesting that both cases are still grounded in the knowledge/expectation that the behavior is stigmatized and unwanted, not in classic entitlement.
Another addition is:
There are different cultural norms about how conversations work.
In some cultures, you’re supposed to wait your turn. In others, you’re supposed to jump in and interrupt each other.
Neither is wrong.
Harm is often done when people aren’t playing by the same set of cultural assumptions.
A lot of the advice I got about learning to enforce my boundaries was framed as an adversarial thing. Like, ‘yes, it might upset and disappoint the people around you, but you have to learn to tell them ‘no’ anyway.’ At best, ‘good people will still like you if you enforce your boundaries’.
What I wish I’d been told is that good people will think it’s awesome that you enforce your boundaries, that there are people who will respect the hell out of you for it, that there are people who will admire you not despite you telling them no, but because of it. That most people don’t want to make you do something you don’t enjoy,and so they’ll actively be happier and more relaxed around you if they know they can trust you to decline to do things you don’t enjoy and to ask them to stop things that bother you.
It helped me a lot, personally, to stop thinking of ‘enforcing my boundaries’ as something I did for me and more as something I did to empower the people I was close with, to build a situation where they and I felt sure everything that was going on was something we all wanted.
Most advice isn’t good for everyone and this advice seems maybe bad for people in abusive situations, because sometimes you do need to learn to enforce boundaries against people who will try to violate them. But if there are other brains like me out there: your partner will be really happy you can say no to them. your friend will be really happy you change the subject when you hate it. your roommate will really appreciate that you tell them to turn down the music. most people will feel safer and more comfortable around you if they know you’ll reliably express your needs, AND they’ll feel better about voicing theirs.
If a neurotypical asks you, “What game are you playing?” they’re not asking you to describe the game.
They’re asking you if they can play too.
If a neurotypical asks you, “What are you watching?” they’re not asking you to explain the plot of the movie/tv show to them.
They’re asking if they can watch it with you.
.
When neurotypicals ask you “What are you doing?”
What you think they’re asking: “Please explain to me what you are doing.”
What they’re actually asking: “Can I join you?”
Now here’s the really fucked up part. If you start explaining to them what you’re doing? They will interpret that as a rejection.
What you think you’re saying: [the answer to their question]
What they think you’re saying: This is an elite and exclusive activity for a level 5 friend and you are a level 1 acquaintance. You are not qualified to join me because you don’t know all this stuff. Go away.
.
This is why neurotypicals think you’re being cold and antisocial.
IT’S ALL A HORRIBLE MISCOMMUNICATION.
I didn’t realize, even thought it took me almost three decades to learn this, that this was such a paradigm changing realization until we had our conversation today.
But it really really is. One of the most bewildering realizations I’ve had is most people don’t talk to learn things unless its related to work or directly towards their own hobbies, all the words and questions are bonding questions if done socially. They are “lets make friends” questions.
So if I answer their question without an opportunity for the person asking the question to give a response or to join in somehow, the asker feels alienated and starts shutting down.
Example: what are you reading?
True answer but not what they’re looking for: Title of book
Best answer for social scenarios where I want to retain/create friendship: This book is about x and y but it has z that i know u have an interest in too.
Example: what are you doing?
True answer but not: drawing
Best answer for friends: I’m drawing but would u like company while I’m working?
And sometimes frankly I’m not in a headspace where I can process people so the answer is something like, “I would like to do something in a day or later, do you want to plan something?”
Tldr: communication is wierd
HOLY
SHIT
that explains so fucking much thank you
(why the fuck do neurotypicals never just day what they mean ie hey this show looks cool mind if I join you)
Further annoying?
They don’t realize that’s what they’re asking and they just feel rejected and go away. So you can’t even ask them what you did wrong because they can’t even put a finger on why they feel the way they do they just know you made them feel bad for some undefined reason.
I think it has to do, at least partially, with this.
There’s a whole lot of Guess Culture, at least in the US where I live, so that’s what I’m going to talk about. What these people are doing is testing to see if you will offer them an invitation by expressing their interest in a roundabout way, because to their perception, just ASKING to join you is rude and invasive. The math goes like this:
– If I ask you if I can join you to watch this TV show, and you don’t want me to, and you say “No, I don’t want you to join me”, then you look like an unfriendly ass.
– If you don’t want to look like an ass, because courtesy is so often performative, you would instead grit your teeth and say “Sure, of course I don’t mind” even though you do. Now I’ve got what I want – I’m watching the show – but you’re not happy because your private enjoyment has been infringed upon.
– I have now placed social pressure on you to do what I want you to do. You couldn’t REALLY say no because that would have resulted in social consequences.
– Therefore, instead of asking, I will merely express interest and gauge your response. This saves us both some embarrassment because you can show me you’re not interested without directly rejecting me as a person, and I can salve my pride a little by attributing your rejection to other things – maybe you were just tired, or cranky, or distracted. I’m still disappointed, but this hasn’t become a confrontation.
That’s basically how this social junk works out, and it’s why a whole lot of people don’t just say what they mean, or ask for what they need – they perceive that doing so is a form of social coercion. In other words, they’re trying to be nice and respect your boundaries, but because you didn’t set those boundaries to begin with, the two of you are just missing each other entirely in this conversation.
Exactly. It has little to do with neurotypical or neurodivergent, and everything to do with culture clash.
If it were ok to say No, then Asking Culture would be more prevalent.
Since it largely isn’t without “looking like an ass,” and being treated accordingly, then a lot of people conform to Guess Culture. Especially here in the United States.
It’s just that Guess Culture is more socially taxing and subtle, and neurodivergents have a more difficult time with it. Surprise! It’s almost like complex social structures are their Achilles Heel.
My family comes from Asking Culture, and it took me forever to conform to Guess Culture. It’s not cuz I’m “autistic,” thanks. I could go more into why I believe, personally, that Guess Culture needs dismantling, but that’s a soap box for another time.
This makes quite a bit of sense. Personally, I haven’t experienced this much although it might just be because I’m from Australia and not the US and Guess Culture might not be as prevalent here. That or my tendency to take things literally means I never pick up on it in the first place. I find that it’s less of a social error (with my neurotypical friends anyway) to say “hey mind if I join you?” if I want to do something with the other person. On the other hand though I was taught that it was impolite to invite yourself to join someone’s activity or to invite yourself over to their house so yeah basically communication is just really weird.
If a neurotypical asks you, “What game are you playing?” they’re not asking you to describe the game.
They’re asking you if they can play too.
If a neurotypical asks you, “What are you watching?” they’re not asking you to explain the plot of the movie/tv show to them.
They’re asking if they can watch it with you.
.
When neurotypicals ask you “What are you doing?”
What you think they’re asking: “Please explain to me what you are doing.”
What they’re actually asking: “Can I join you?”
Now here’s the really fucked up part. If you start explaining to them what you’re doing? They will interpret that as a rejection.
What you think you’re saying: [the answer to their question]
What they think you’re saying: This is an elite and exclusive activity for a level 5 friend and you are a level 1 acquaintance. You are not qualified to join me because you don’t know all this stuff. Go away.
.
This is why neurotypicals think you’re being cold and antisocial.
IT’S ALL A HORRIBLE MISCOMMUNICATION.
I didn’t realize, even thought it took me almost three decades to learn this, that this was such a paradigm changing realization until we had our conversation today.
But it really really is. One of the most bewildering realizations I’ve had is most people don’t talk to learn things unless its related to work or directly towards their own hobbies, all the words and questions are bonding questions if done socially. They are “lets make friends” questions.
So if I answer their question without an opportunity for the person asking the question to give a response or to join in somehow, the asker feels alienated and starts shutting down.
Example: what are you reading?
True answer but not what they’re looking for: Title of book
Best answer for social scenarios where I want to retain/create friendship: This book is about x and y but it has z that i know u have an interest in too.
Example: what are you doing?
True answer but not: drawing
Best answer for friends: I’m drawing but would u like company while I’m working?
And sometimes frankly I’m not in a headspace where I can process people so the answer is something like, “I would like to do something in a day or later, do you want to plan something?”
Tldr: communication is wierd
HOLY
SHIT
that explains so fucking much thank you
(why the fuck do neurotypicals never just day what they mean ie hey this show looks cool mind if I join you)
Further annoying?
They don’t realize that’s what they’re asking and they just feel rejected and go away. So you can’t even ask them what you did wrong because they can’t even put a finger on why they feel the way they do they just know you made them feel bad for some undefined reason.
That is way more of being an imposing burden then just…. you know…asking if you can join.
Well sure, I’m not justifying the response by any means. But it is a reason some people have (especially those dealing with social anxiety or who have had trauma from being excluded).
But the one sure-fire way to be rejected is to never ask though…
I’ll contribute as someone who does have this level of social anxiety on occasion and who sometimes does what y’all are complaining about.
I have been told, many many times, that the sheer act of asking is a burden. Mostly it’s because I’m an Obvious Minority and thus My Existence Is A Burden (yaaaaay childhood racism -_-;;), but the sheer fact that I might want to join in on things is shock! horror! UNTHINKABLE
Also there’s the whole Ask Culture vs Guess Culture thing, which is basically at the heart of this post. I grew up in hardcore Guess Culture – you try to avoid asking anything outright, you have to infer and read between the lines a lot. Which is extremely frustrating even without the added complication of “and people who are obnoxious like you just by virtue of existing should never even ask at all”. If at any point you may be an imposition, you try to avoid it wherever possible – you wait for an invitation, rather than ask for one.
Between the Guess Culture thing and the whole “don’t even bother asking nobody likes you” thing, even asking for things like “can I join you” is anxiety-inducing. With indirect ways at least it’s a save. No invite? Oh well.
Again, I’m not saying any one approach is better than the other – what I’m saying is that there’s layers to these things, whether because of culture or because of anxiety issues or whatever, and people aren’t necessarily trying to be obtuse on purpose. It’s just an issue of cross-purposes and clashing communication styles.
Urocyon's Jaunts 2.0 