lenyberry:

fierceawakening:

t3trahedron:

fierceawakening:

ms-demeanor:

fierceawakening:

Like i WANT to understand why conservatives think the things they do but it’s so tough to figure that shit out when what they offer you, more often than not, is a snappy one-liner or “I don’t have to listen to you because if you don’t agree with me 100% you’re a grabber”

It’s… impossible to do anything with that

I think part of it is being raised with a different set of… I dunno, cultural myths? I feel like is the word I’m looking for? They might have the same basic religious/educational pattern as a lot of people who aren’t conservative but when they went home from school/church/scouts they got this whole other thing layered on top of it.

I think some of it comes from the things various churches emphasize – for instance the more evangelical stripes of Christianity in my area are really big on the idea of Christian persecution. It’s a rite of passage for kids in these churches to go attempt to convert people and get yelled at for it so they can go back to the fold and tell stories about how the world really does hate them (protip; they fucking detest it when you forgive them for assuming you were unsaved and then ask to pray with them to help them be filled with the love and compassion of Christ in spreading the word through kindness and hospitality and generosity). The people who show up at college campuses with signs about mouthy women, teh gayz, abortionists, swearword sayers, and so on are doing the same thing. That’s why it’s better to, say, sing opera over them or set up an amp and play loud rock than it is to engage in debate or gather a shouting mob around them. That’s what they want so they can show their church how these liberal colleges discriminate against good, kind, Christians.

And I think that attitude translates to other stuff – you’re a grabber and you’re part of the fallen world and I can never fix you or see eye-to-eye with you and therefore can’t allow myself to be tempted.

[Sidenote: I have some THOUGHTS about CS Lewis and temptation and the isolation and festering ideologies that happen when you’re worried that discourse with the outsiders might interfere with your mere Christianity]

And then there’s a layer of confirmation bias that happens – since they refuse to actually talk to the Libs and hear what they’re saying because “I tried talking to one lib and they used the same talking point that I saw on a facebook meme on the American Patriots page so the lib I was talking to is obviously just as stupid and cruel as the strawman from the meme.”

As much as I hate the whole tone policing, be the bigger person, you’ve got to be kinder than they are sort of thing [because you shouldn’t have to be nicer, you shouldn’t have to be patient with their cruelty, you shouldn’t have to reach farther than they do, it’s not fucking fair and it’s exhausting] that’s kind of where you have to go.

Also you can try sealioning. They seem to enjoy doing it so we might as well see if there’s something to be gained from it. Why do you think I’m trying to grab your guns? Can you point to an example in the US where gun control has resulted in the forcible seizure of firearms? Has a gun control measure ever resulted in a house-to-house search in the US? What about all the people who end up grandfathered in? That happens with every gun control measure, what if your collection was grandfathered? Do you think that the same gun rights should be extended to [X GROUP THEY ARE VERY AFRAID OF, SAY, PERHAPS, ANTIFA WHO CAN TOTALLY BE LEGAL GUN OWNERS FOR THE MOST PART]? What kind of gun control would you like to see for [X GROUP]?

But a part of it is also the whole ingroup/outgroup human bullshit that I don’t know that there *is* a solution to.

Anyway, shit’s fucked up, try to be kind and if you can’t be kind at least try to be funny.

Yeah, I think that’s part of it. I was raised liberal Christian, and there was no going out and converting people. There was “showing them the love of Christ” by being kind to them, listening to them, and trying not to judge them. The belief was that eventually they would notice this and ask “why are you so nice” or “why are you doing this” AND THEN you could say “because I was commanded to by my God” and MAYBE they’d get curious and come to church with you. At which point everyone gives them, like, hugs and food because welcome.

At church, politics wasn’t mentioned, but at home, I was always taught that we were liberal because Jesus wanted people to love, help, and protect one another, and the alternative was to be selfish and callous and make Jesus sad.

I’m not saying it was perfect, my mom could be a guilt trip machine when she wanted to be. As a teen I read A LOT of nietzsche and Ayn Rand and wanted to know what Republicans think and why we disagree with them.

But I quickly came to the conclusion that ayn Rand at least didn’t make much sense—I’m disabled, I needed health care, I got it and it’s worthwhile I exist. I could never make not giving back make sense, especially once trickle down didn’t seem to be why middle class people prospered for a while under Reagan.

I’m still curious but I feel like I never get answers when I ask “what did I miss at 17? Why didn’t this stuff convince me? Do you want to try and finish the job?”

I just get like “libtard” and “lol.” I can’t make a coherent worldview out of lol, sorry.

Completely off topic, but I have to ask – did the ‘be nice to make them covert’ thing actually ever work? I assume it could be fairly effective for someone going through a really rough patch where nobody else was being nice to them, but I’d imagine the average person would either not ask, be nice back so not notice, or just not care either way.

I don’t think so, but I don’t think it was designed to make converts in the same way the door knocking thing supposedly is. I think it was more of a “everyone who spreads love and compassion is doing what Jesus wants anyway, extra points if they explain it like we do” kind of deal.

Raised in a religion with a similar philosophy toward making converts. The idea wasn’t “never mention your religion unless directly asked a question you can’t answer honestly without mentioning it” but rather “be open about your religion and the fact that you’re Being Nice because you’re living by the tenets of your religion, but don’t push it on people”. 

The idea being that if you do it right, pretty much everyone who knows you should end up with some basic exposure to your religion by you mentioning it in passing when it’s relevant to do so without being pushy and weird about it, and hopefully will recognize that this religion makes you a good person and also want to be a good person themself so will then seek out more info and possibly convert.